Curse

YesNo · Apr 02, 2007, 04:51 AM // 04:51

So a while back, Anet decided to make HoH into a 6v6, and with that brought new win conditions to many of the maps to "balance" them. Now that HoH is back to 8v8, I find these win conditions degenerating HoH.
Lets take a look at Broken Tower and Courtyard. These are maps first designed as altar holding maps. Whoever had it captured at the end of the timer wins (hence the rez orbs for the hero). Now its just a 3 way kill count, promoting ganking of the weakest teams, or even double teaming of whoever people just don't like. Either case, its just not fun, and highly discouraging to many players.
Now with only 2 of the maps leading to halls being about relics, and the rest being about pure killing, builds have moved into just pure offense. Every match is Icy Veins, spirits and thumeprs, assassins, fire eles, and paragons.
Its almost as rare as a skill balance updates that I see a warrior or a mesmer in HoH. And with builds on the pure offense since there is no holding maps anymore, builds seem like they will just continue to update to whatever does more damage faster.
Now I've been discussing these thigns with many players this weekend, as everytime we get to Broken Tower there is always at elast one person on vent complaining that we didn't get a skip. The general opinion I've gatehred from players is that HoH needs to have at least 1 holding map. Holding altars forces teams to bring some defense to their build, which lowers their offensive to some degree. This would at least force some builds to drop a fire spell for a ward or 2.
Now I'm not here to rant and complain, but it seems that Anet trolls these forums to find players opinions, and I hope that many veteran halls players express their opinions here too.

~Yes No
Illustrious Hero (10)

coleslawdressin · Apr 02, 2007, 06:22 AM // 06:22

It is a big letdown that after all this time all they did was change it back to 8v8. I really expected the delay to mean that they were doing something about this major problem. At least GVG is still fun.... Let's see if they mess up ATs.

Death_From_Above · Apr 02, 2007, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Totally agree with you. Kill count i found is just so boaring and dull. Running around for like 5 mins and trying to kill something and run away is just lame. More time running less time fighting. I was playing HA all weekend and guess what i found, during my play through loads of teams.

I never met a warrior and i met few few mesmer. But i was running a warrior but for the whole weekend i never saw a warrior. This clearly says somethings wrong. All you see is full damage builds like fire eles ect its all just gay and repetative. Builds which really shouldnt even be expolited (or shall i say would not be expolited) if things like heavy hex and so on worked are and that makes some of them almost unstopable to a team. Things are messed up, anet needs 2 get rid of kill count to restore balance.

I have to say kill count is the gayest map iv ever seen, id rather play 200 scared earths than it. It dosent favour the most experianced team at all. To many luck factors within it.

HolyHawk · Apr 02, 2007, 06:29 AM // 06:29

We ran balanced this weekend, despite the incentive to be running spikes. The point is, you can resist every other build, but the time you take to exhaust them so the kills start to show up is longer. For fame farming, it's faster to use fire eles, iv spike and sins here and there. Even if you are in relic maps, just anihilate them before they can run anything. Besides, if you can kill faster, you can afford some deaths in kill count maps. But I know how stupid it was to see 2 spike teams ganking our balanced team. They didn't even think.

Zenos Squad · Apr 02, 2007, 08:07 AM // 08:07

give anet another 5-6 months, they will change it back to altar holding ^.^

ZenRgy · Apr 02, 2007, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenos Squad

give anet another 5-6 months, they will change it back to altar holding ^.^

Because that's so much better.

LifesRestorer · Apr 02, 2007, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

Because that's so much better.

actually, yes, it is.

AusEqualsFtw · Apr 02, 2007, 11:46 AM // 11:46

-nerf sf (more then just decrease energy on glow gaze and a bit less duration of burn)

-go back to 6v6, if demand for 8v8 find a middleground...7v7

- bring back alter holding

LifesRestorer · Apr 02, 2007, 11:55 AM // 11:55

thats the worst possible scenario. altar holding was made for 8v8. lack of utility in 6v6 means you WILL have the super lameway holding builds that cant do anything.

KC was a mechanic made for 6v6, just like Altar holding was a mechanic made for 8v8.

7v7? lol...

evil joo · Apr 02, 2007, 12:35 PM // 12:35

1) 5 paragons spike + 3 monks is overpowered

2) The abuse of Necro soul reaping energy from spirits needs to be stopped once and for all

~Most likely, Anet are aware of this already and hopefully the next skills updates will put a balance to this. If they don't, I wont be as surprise either. (-.-)

ZenRgy · Apr 02, 2007, 01:12 PM // 13:12

It's the same deal, if you set it back to altar, everyone sits until 2:00 or 1:30 or whatever then all rush in for the cap

OR

A team with a holding build caps, sits on the altar on and runs around kiting and healing without the slightest of problems.

Holding builds are just as bad as spike builds, well at least spike builds make for quick matches.

YesNo · Apr 02, 2007, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

It's the same deal, if you set it back to altar, everyone sits until 2:00 or 1:30 or whatever then all rush in for the cap

OR

A team with a holding build caps, sits on the altar on and runs around kiting and healing without the slightest of problems.

Holding builds are just as bad as spike builds, well at least spike builds make for quick matches.

I'm sure you've had 10,000 last second altar caps.
But the point is with altar maps in circulation, it forces down some of this high end damage builds. People need to start thinking of defense, instead of KILL KILL KILL. And yea, the old wait til under 2 minutes to rush the altar on courtyard got old, but then anet can just leave that timer at 4:00 or 5:00.
Also, the pont of this thread was to discuss kill count (the problems, possible solutions, ect.), and the impact its been having, so please just keep it to that.

J3mo · Apr 02, 2007, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil joo

1) 5 paragons spike + 3 monks is overpowered

2) The abuse of Necro soul reaping energy from spirits needs to be stopped once and for all

~Most likely, Anet are aware of this already and hopefully the next skills updates will put a balance to this. If they don't, I wont be as surprise either. (-.-)

I agree, probably this will be fixed in like 6 months, like mentioned above.

axe · Apr 02, 2007, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Personally when the teams are evenly matched Kill count is my favorite map. I love a close Kill count game. However most of the time its really lame.

For me removing this totally would be a mistake. If they had alternating objectives on altar maps in general I think it could fix the problem of promoting spikes.

Maybe just alternate King of the Hill and Kill Count on Broken Tower and Courtyard. I dont know, it would be a shame to lose that mechanic altogether in my opinion.

coleslawdressin · Apr 02, 2007, 03:00 PM // 15:00

The problem definitely isn't that we need altars or 6v6 back........kill count generally is less fun than old courtyard and broken tower though. People don't spec ultra holding or interruption anymore for HOH so it would probably work better than before.

The problem is ANET could have done this update in one afternoon but they delayed for months and had us thinking that they were making more changes............. Can we get a comment on this really please Gaile?

A dev said that they were doing "something" to counter the problem of spikes. Maybe they tested it, or not, and it didn't work out. Whoever is in charge of PVP maps is slow as hell and doing a poor job. If somehow there were community map making tools, tombs could be so much better.

A dev said that kill count calculates damage "in a weird way". They should publish details on this, like how they did an article on the guild lord way back when people wondered what was up with his weird life bar. Kill count limits builds that are viable and encourages nooby AOE builds and ganking.

I really would hate to agree with the just bring back old altars crowd, but if they don't put any effort into their game I might. It seems like they are pretty much just leaving GW for dead and putting all efforts into GW2. I guess I feel pretty much the same as them.

baaba · Apr 02, 2007, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Look at how many people sign on this thread.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10128112

Anet is just either completely ignoring the players' demands or too damn slow on making changes.

Kill Count sucks if it is not 1 vs 1. Soul Reaping is making things worst. Searing Flame is still the most mindless casting spell ever.

YesNo · Apr 02, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I /signed, but I doubt its going to do anything for at least 6+ months.

Just don't understand why Anet keeps trying to make everything turn into a larger version of TA and AB. Between Underworld, Burial Mounds, and Dark Chambers there is enough killing.

Tiyuri · Apr 02, 2007, 06:00 PM // 18:00

There will be an update this weekend, wait for it then make judgement.

Lord Natural · Apr 02, 2007, 06:07 PM // 18:07

I argee with the OP. Kill count has no place in HA, but judging by anet's reponse time, we can expect it to be removed right around GW2's release.

byggryn10 · Apr 02, 2007, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenos Squad

give anet another 5-6 months, they will change it back to altar holding ^.^

Its sad because its true......